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Wayne: Today we’re talking personal brand, and whether or not people should have one, and why it’s important to have one. Shall we mention the talk that we were giving?

Cem: Yeah, I think so.

Wayne: Yeah, so this came about because we were delivering a talk, which you will have heard some of the … well it was more of a Q&A, you would have heard some of those that were in the feed a couple of weeks ago.

Cem: The last couple of weeks, yeah.

Wayne: And one of the students there was looking to go into the occupational therapy arena, if memory recalls. And he was asking whether or not it was worth having a personal brand as an occupational therapist, because why would he need one? Because it’s a semi-medical field … well, it later transpired that actually he wanted to go into the corporate arena, in which case I was like, “Definitely hell yes.” But at first I thought it was more the slightly more medical angle of it.

Wayne: But the answer was still pretty much a hell yes, because you need to differentiate yourself. In this episode we wanted to dive into that as a general concept, and why it is advantageous to have a personal brand.

Cem: Yeah, I’ve always been a fan of the book Key Person of Influence by Daniel Priestly, so whenever I hear anybody ask this question, number one I just say, “Look, check out that book.” But on the side it’s just nowadays with competition so high, I mean we only just did the episode about the AI doing interviews, and I think nowadays if social media is being analyzed, if there’s so many people going after that one job, then I think it’s only your personal brand that is the thing that’s going to make you stand out from other people.

Cem: The one big problem I have with people when they think of personal brand is them just copying someone who’s known for that thing, rather than realizing you don’t have to have a million followers because you’re an occupational therapist. Or you don’t have to I don’t know, have a YouTube Channel where you just show yourself doing occupational therapy. Stuff like that. At the end of the day, it’s about creating content which again is how you have a personal brand, is to put yourself out there, that people know of you for that arena that you’re known for.

Cem: I mean when we did the podcast, I probably posted a lot more, but you could tell what things we were interested in, what articles I was sharing on the Twitter and stuff like that. And so a personal brand is just something there that kind of backs up what you do, more so in the digital realm because I think back in the day I can’t imagine … well you’d know someone probably in the village who was the butcher. Whereas nowadays it’s well, your personal brand is put out through the digital landscape in which we judge each other anyway.

Wayne: But it’s funny actually that you bring up the whole village thing, because what you end up with on social media for example and online is a kind of self populated village. Your Facebook feed is a village, and if you have mutual friends, then those mutual friends that are in your village also see what are in the other people’s villages. And you’ll see what’s in their village. And so then you start sharing resources much like a village would’ve done back in the day, except it’s a lot more complicated and much more like a web, hence the worldwide web.

Cem: Just want to jump in there. What you’ve just said really reminds me you know when people put onto a Facebook feed, “Can somebody tag a graphic designer they know.” And it’s like well, if your personal brand on your social media was always sharing pieces of art where you’ve designed something for a company, or you’ve posted your latest little sketch you’ve done, then in that sort of village online everyone goes, “Well, I don’t know this person well, but I’ve seen that they are a graphic designer,” and they might just tag that person in, in the same way that I know when people have seen … I know you don’t always enjoy it when people do it, when someone’s seen an audition going on, and they’re like, “Oh, this theater company wants people to audition.” And they’ll tag Wayne, or they know Wayne’s an actor. Or they’ve tag Jim because he might be interested in this thing about veganism.

Cem: It’s kind of you build, like you say, that sort of digital village brand of yourself, which then people now say, “I know you share this kind of stuff, which is why I thought you might be interested in X, Y, or Z.”

Wayne: Well as an example that springs to mind, my ex-girlfriend from about 10 years ago got married about a month ago. And little did I know, because she failed to share this information with me, but my little sister was hired as the photographer for the wedding. And my sister wasn’t doing her photography when I was dating this woman. But because my sister’s made an effort to build a personal brand online …

Cem: And you probably liked a few of her pictures she shared.

Wayne: Yeah. And I mean they were friends on Facebook anyway regardless. But the point is, that personal brand building has resulted in a job. And particularly if you are freelancing, particularly you need to build a personal brand. But it’s getting to the point now where even the employers are, because yeah you can write a CV, sure, and you can say I’ve got this experience, I’ve got that experience. But if you haven’t got the portfolio to back it up, they’re going to go with somebody that’s got the portfolio to back it up over somebody that’s just written on their CV, “Trust me, I can do this.”

Wayne: And what having a personal brand does is it creates a very in depth, very complex portfolio.

Cem: It’s more of a web around the things you do.

Wayne: Yeah. And if for example … I’ll use myself as an example. So, if you were to go onto my website, or into my social media and you were like okay, I feel like I want to hire this actor, but can he do Shakespeare? And you typed Shakespeare into say my YouTube Channel, you would get a couple of results. And then you’d be able to judge whether or not I can do Shakespeare without having to bring me in for an initial audition. And then you could say okay, well now we’ve shortlisted him, and go around the entire process.

Wayne: Again, kind of fits in with the whole AI thing and using social media as part of the hiring process. It’s a reality that that is happening and therefore you should place yourself in the market ready to take that opportunity, because as much as we might kick and scream and say it’s probably not right that social media should be being used in the hiring process, the point is that it is being used in the hiring process. And by being idealistic about it, you’re only going to place yourself in a weaker position than the person that goes, “Yeah, it is happening. I’m not sure I’m happy about it, but you know what? I’ve got a personal brand anyway, so it’s going to benefit me in the long run.”

Cem: Exactly. And so some practical advice I would say to people is put content out there. Don’t overthink it. Put it on all the channels. I think if you put it on LinkedIn, that’s an amazing one, especially if you’re a career person or you are a freelancer. I think on there, especially when you see the same person posting certain content, before long you’re getting tagged in things, you’re getting picked up because you’ve maybe tagged a certain phrase, or someone shares your article which now they’ve got clout in that arena and it goes out to a lot more people. Or just creating video content where you’re sharing advice, because like Wayne says, someone might, number one look at your CV and think that’s good. And then you’ve got a link to your YouTube Channel, and they think wow, he’s really spent a lot of time.

Cem: It says a lot about your character as well if you’re sharing a lot of content.

Wayne: Mm-hmm (affirmative), that’s true.

Cem: One resource that I think, Wayne, it might be good to share is the one that you know, the Gary Vee one that you’re following. And maybe how people could find …

Wayne: Oh, the Gary Vee content model?

Cem: Yeah. Would you say that would be something useful for a personal brand? Or could they water that down a little bit? Without it being too kind of cheesy is what I’m worried about.

Wayne: As a starting point, I don’t know if that is a good place to start to be honest. I mean check it out, the Gary Vee content model, or the Gary Vaynerchuck content model. If you search for either of those on Google you’ll get a breakdown of it, you’ll be able to find it.

Wayne: But I don’t know if that’s the right place to start. If you’ve already established a personal brand and now you’re thinking okay, what content do I put out there? Then yes, that’s probably a good place to start. But if you haven’t even thought about personal brand and you’re let’s say in this student’s shoes and kind of gone I don’t even know if I need one, then I think something like Key Person of Influence, or Crushing It by Gary Vee would be a better place to start.

Cem: It might just mean posting a few pictures of stuff you’re interested in. You’re a photographer, share a few of your photos on Instagram.

Wayne: That’s it. Because I think the problem with the Gary Vee content model if you’re starting out, it’s very overwhelming.

Cem: It’s a bit over the top, it’s like going from zero to all of that content.

Wayne: Yeah, I’m trying to follow it at the minute, because I’m now really trying to hone in on building my personal brand now. And I can’t keep up with it. And I’m putting things out here and there. I have no time right now, but I’m desperately trying to follow it and it’s still very time consuming. And I think if you start there, then I think you’ll run out of gas very, very, very, very quickly.

Cem: So choose a singular channel and start there?

Wayne: Start there, and then as the thing starts to grow, and as you start going okay, I don’t really know what content to put out there. And once you’ve exhausted the obvious things, because if you can’t come up with some obvious things to begin with to be posting about, then you’re probably not in a great position to be building a personal brand anyway. So once you’ve exhausted all of those, then start looking at the Gary Vee content model I would say.

Cem: And for someone out there who’s kind of like, “Well I’m in a career, I’ve never had to create an Instagram to get myself my admin job,” and stuff like that, just always think slightly ahead. You might not do it now, you might be secure in how you’ve been getting your roles.

Wayne: And also, is the admin job really what you want? Is that really what you want to be spending all your time doing? Because the thing about personal brand is it doesn’t have to be just about your job. That’s where it’s brilliant. That is where it is absolutely brilliant.

Cem: Because it builds a bit more of a wider picture.

Wayne: As an example, I had a workshop with a film director about a week ago who revealed to the whole class that he was a Jets fan. I was this close to being like, “You don’t happen to be a Gary Vaynerchuck fan as well do you?” And if he wasn’t a Gary Vaynerchuck fan, then I would’ve been like, “Well you need to check him out,” because actually the guy’s personality very much felt like he would be very into Gary Vee if he wasn’t already. So then Gary Vee would’ve benefited from the fact that he was vocal about the fact that he was a Jets fan, and he talks about the Jets a lot.

Wayne: Because whenever I see the Jets, I think of Gary Vee.

Cem: Guess what, I bought myself a nice little Jets hat from New York.

Wayne: Did you really?

Cem: A wooly hat, yeah.

Wayne: Dude, he’s converted you.

Cem: Exactly. I’ve never seen the Jets, I don’t know anyone on the team. I was just like you know what …

Wayne: But you know that if you were going to support a team, it’d probably be the Jets.

Cem: It’d be the Jets, he’s branded the Jets for me, I was like that’s a cool hat, I’m getting it.

Wayne: Yeah, cool man.

Cem: Wicked.

Wayne: Anything else to add before we wrap up?

Cem: Not really. I just think don’t overthink it. That’s the one thing I think people do, because everyone’s been hearing a lot by … I don’t know by a careers person, “Create a personal brand.”

Wayne: But people don’t know what that means.

Cem: Yeah, don’t do it in a sleazy fake way. Build out who you are. I know people, you’re always going to show you best side of yourself. But just take it over time. Even us doing this podcast for a certain amount of years, people instantly know okay, Cem and Wayne are interested in these things.

Cem: So, give it a go, it’s worth it. And if people are starting to put clout in these digital platforms and the things you’re sharing, then it’s probably quite important to build out the kind of persona, or hopefully the reality of who you are online.

Wayne: Yeah, agreed.

If you want any questions answered, or if you have any ideas for anythings you’d like us to address, send us an email, Wayne@powerfulnonsense.com or Cem@powerfulnonsense.com, or you can look us up on the Twitterz @PN_Podcast, and we will take it into consideration. And also, please do leave us a nice little review on the old iTunes. It really does help get the word out there for the show. Five stars or more, greatly appreciated.