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Wayne: So today, we want to talk about retirement, and specifically, the millennial relationship with retirement. See what I did there?

Cem: That was nice.

Wayne: Thanks. Retirement is talked about a lot at the minute because retirement age is going up and-

Cem: What is it currently, 65?

Wayne: 65. Many people reckon it’s going to be going up to 70 very soon just because of the economy.

Cem: People living longer, aren’t they, as well?

Wayne: And people living longer, exactly, and they said there’s the worry that we don’t have enough money in the kitty to support people-

Cem: Because millennials could get to 65 years old and then you’ll be like, “Oh, well the average age that people die now is 105.” And we’re like, “Shit, we’ve got 40 years to be-”

Wayne: Could you imagine if five days before your 65th birthday the government goes, “Naah, sorry mate. You’ve got to wait another five years.”

Cem: Let’s make it 80.

Wayne: Then, by the time you get to 69, it goes, “Sorry, mate. We messed that up, it’s going to be another five years.” And you’re just constantly chasing retirement.

Cem: Millennials always get the hikes in student fees. So, by the time we’re just about to get to, like you say, the five days before retirement package comes out, they’ll be, “Naah, we just changed the law.”

Wayne: Sorry mate.

Cem: Or the world will just go bust and your whole pension packet, it just disappears.

Wayne: Well, that’s happening for more frequently already. So, millennials and retirement, so there seems to be a bit of a shift going on. Well actually, before we go there, let’s talk about retirement, generally, Cem.

Cem: I just want to say, number one-

Wayne: Okay. Go for it. Go for it. Go for it.

Cem: I don not believe that millennials even consider retirement right now.

Wayne: I agree.

Cem: How many of our listeners are thinking, “Hmm, I wonder how my retirement is going to go. Have I planned for it? Am I putting enough away? I can’t wait to be on that cruise ship.”

Wayne: No, no. And so, it’s interesting because I was just about to ask you, retirement, do you want or not.

Cem: I’d take it if it was given to me. But, my mentality … I think when people think about retirement, they think about pension. They think about, “Oh yeah, once you get to that good, old age, you can leave your job and you’ve got enough to live off of for the rest of your life.”

Wayne: Okay, what would you do in your retirement. If you were to retire today, what would you do?

Cem: Not much.

Wayne: How would you spend your retirement?

Cem: The thing is, it’s a long time, and you’re pretty old. And I hope-

Wayne: No, but if you were to retire today.

Cem: What would be my plan? What would my-

Wayne: What would you do with your-

Cem: Everyday.

Wayne: -probably 60 years of retirement.

Cem: Oh, as in all that time ahead?

Wayne: Yeah, how would you spend your retirement?

Cem: I’d probably just go do volunteering work or charity work or something.

Wayne: So you wouldn’t retire?

Cem: I wouldn’t get paid. But I would still want to be busy. I would sit on my ass and just be, “Oh yeah, let me go …”

Wayne: But what if you could do all of that stuff and get paid?

Cem: Why are you coming across like some cheesy YouTube advert? I swear, if you pop up-

Wayne: Are you volunteering in your retirement?

Cem: I swear, if you pop up in my YouTube video and you’re just walking around with some sprayed gray hair trying to pitch me some early retirement millennial package. And you’ll be like, “You know what, I didn’t give a shit about abs. I retired well. I’m only 30 years …” Something like that.

Wayne: But in all seriousness, what if you could do all that stuff and get paid? The only thing that’s stopping you from … The only thing that makes that retirement activity, is the fact that you’re not getting paid.

Cem: Yeah, I think ultimately, you just need those costs covered and that’s what retirement is all about. That’s why people say, “You know what, to get financially free, I’m going to need to have five rental properties bringing me in at least 3K in rent per month.” And you know what, that’s enough to live off of. And if you and your partner do that together, suddenly you’ve got enough to retire. So, when people think of retirement, I think the general population think of it as in work until you’re 65, leave, your company will give you a payout, and you’ve paid into your pension for so long that you’re going to start getting this big lump sum and then this income that’s paid to you because you paid it over your lifetime.

Cem: I think millennials, number one, definitely amongst my friends, aren’t thinking about that. I think when I think of planning for future is that, sort of, financially free future is, okay, what do I need to do business wise, property wise, to make sure that I have some constant income for life. I think retirement is, pretty much, that whole, how do you become financially free, where your time isn’t … You’re not worried about using your time because money is coming in anyways. That, sort of, as I say, “passive income”, that’s coming in to cover your lifestyle so you can go do your volunteering, et cetera.

Wayne: Yeah. I personally, can think of anything worse than retirement, honestly.

Cem: Well, they do say that people that retire have massive mental health issues and it’s something that effects people a lot.

Wayne: I think, honestly, I genuinely believe, hand to god, even though I don’t believe in you, mate. But, I honestly think that retirement is one of the biggest killers. I honestly do.

Cem: Yeah, but-

Wayne: Because you’re just not doing … It’s not that you’re not doing anything. But you’ve lost your purpose. It’s like you’re just waiting for your end.

Cem: But that’s where I think retirement for millennials is a total rebrand. I think it is that, “You know what, for the first time in life, I don’t have to worry about money. That’s covered.” And then, they’ll go on doing the things they want to do. And I think, actually, it kind of, goes back to that whole universal income thing. If people had their finances covered, would they go do more purposeful things? When you’re in panic mode, all you’re thinking about is, “Okay, I need to pay the bills.”

Cem: But then, the quicker you can kind of, be in that retirement, the quicker you can be like “You know what, I can make a lot more choices in life, really.”

Wayne: So, rumors abound that millennials are now thinking about retiring early.

Cem: Yes, and I think this article does say that it’s mainly because they’re worried about the future. I don’t whether that means some sort of-

Wayne: This is an article from Business Insider.

Cem: Yeah, I think, in this article, they’re kind of saying, obviously we hear a lot of stuff in the news about, “Oh, the world going to shit. Global warming is going to burn us out. Someone’s going to nuke the place.” And so, I think that millennials are kind of, hearing this news and thinking, “Do you know, if I wait until 65, this planet might not be around then. So, in that case, maybe I need to consider retiring a little earlier so I can enjoy myself a little more.” Because, again, from your leaving uni to you’re, I don’t know, until that retirement age, you’re pretty much working the whole time. Your whole life revolves around your career, ultimately.

Cem: Yeah, you might have some kids in between, get married and stuff. But you spend most of your days in an office or at work. And so millennials are saying, “Well, if the planet’s shit and I end up getting 65, and now I live in some bloody hell hole because it’s boiling hot, population is out of control. Someone’s blown half the world off.” Then, you’re pretty much thinking, “Well, that wasn’t worth it, was it?”

Wayne: Yeah, I think that combined with … I’ve banged on this drum enough times on this podcast. But that combined with 2008 and how we just kind of go, “Oh well, doing it the old fashioned way didn’t work out too well for mom and dad, did it?”

Cem: They nearly lost all their money, didn’t they?

Wayne: Yeah, so the world going to end any minute, apparently. We could lose all of our money over night and have no control over it whatsoever. So, whilst the planet is still here, and whilst I do have my money, why don’t I fricken enjoy it? In fact, it’s interesting, I was having a conversation with my best friend’s step dad over the weekend. He’s very, very successful at what he does.

Cem: I didn’t know you knew my step dad.

Wayne: My best friend from back home. You’re my London bestie.

Cem: Oh, okay. You can have multiple best friends, can you?

Wayne: He’s my Birmingham bestie.

Cem: Okay, I get it. I get it. That’s fine. I can allow that.

Wayne: He’s getting jealous guys. He’s getting jealous.

Cem: And I let you sit on my settee.

Wayne: With the-

Cem: With the recliner out. And I made you a cup of tea. Just remember that.

Wayne: Yeah, yeah. No, no, just remembered that, yeah.

Cem: As you were saying.

Wayne: So, I was talking to my Birmingham bestie’s step dad over the weekend. He’s very successful at what he does. But the works long hours. He works 50-70 hours a week, he was telling me. And he’s done that for 20 years. He’s in hid 50’s, early 50’s, and is considering retirement. First thing I said was, “Yeah, but you’re not really going to retire, are you. Because you’re not going to be able to sit still for that long because you very entrepreneurial in your thinking.” And he’s like, “Oh no, obviously,” he said. “I’m going to be doing stuff.” He said, “But I’ve worked an 80 year old’s career in 30 years. I just can’t keep doing it anymore. I’ve got everything I need. I mean, I’ve got a gorgeous house.” They own 13 properties that they rent out.

Wayne: They’re very, very comfortable financially. He said, “But, my generation, we have a fear, I think, that if we stop, it will all disappear.” Then I said, “I think that’s because the older generation has constantly been acting out of fear.” It hasn’t been from a young age of abundance, whereas, we’re in an age of abundance now. I think the old generations goes, “More, more, more, more, because I have to stockpile everything just in case the world does end.” Whereas, we just kind of, go, “Well, if the world’s going to end, fuck all we can do about it. So, we may as well enjoy our time whilst we’re here.” Which is why we talk about so much the millennials enjoy experiences. They’re not about material wealth.

Wayne: Yes, they want their own house and stuff. In many ways, it’s actually old programming from the previous generation that we’ve just not really been able to shake off. It’s just like, “Yes, let’s go travel the world for six months. Let’s spend all of our money on this massive, cool experience, or spend ridiculous amounts of money going to a gig that we’ve always wanted to go to.” Because we just want to experience so much. In many ways, I think millennials live a much more enriched life because they don’t fear running out of money, in a way. I mean, they do. But they don’t.

Cem: Yeah, they live in the moment. It’s kind of, a responsible YOLO, in some ways. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn’t. But I think, like we’ve said with our friends, they have these sort of, ongoing retirements. I know our friends who work for a year, save as much as they can, then go on that massive holiday. I have employees that do the same. They come to us and say, I’m a student. I’ve took a year at university. I just want to earn as much as I can for one year and then I’m going to go travel. Then, I’m going to go back to uni. I think it’s this idea that actually, they’re taking retirement experiences now, while they’re young, while they’re free, while they’ve got the energy, and I think it’s not a bad choice, really.

Wayne: Yeah, no I agree. If the retirement age is going to continue to rise, then we may as well “get it while we can.” Cool. So, let us know what you think on retirement. Are you planning your retirement? Do you ever want to retire? Do you agree with me that retirement is the biggest killer? I think there are many that agree.

If you want any questions answered, or if you have any ideas for anythings you’d like us to address, send us an email, Wayne@powerfulnonsense.com or Cem@powerfulnonsense.com, or you can look us up on the Twitterz @PN_Podcast, and we will take it into consideration. And also, please do leave us a nice little review on the old iTunes. It really does help get the word out there for the show. Five stars or more, greatly appreciated.