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Wayne: Today, we want to talk about energy management. Oh God. I wish I hadn’t said it like that.

Cem: That sounds very …

Wayne: That sounds really clinical and really dull. But it’s important, like managing your own personal energy, as in not like British gas, but actually how can you stay on top of your game, be firing on all cylinders and how you can kind of go about managing that.

Cem: I think one of the best ways to look at energy, especially, is like … as tank is a good metaphor to use, and I think some things you do are kind of adding to that tank. They’re like the NOS, they’re the stuff that’s going to really fire you up. But then also, there’s things or people around you that can pull your energy down. I think a lot of the time, people who say, “I’m just too tired or I haven’t got energy,” it’s often because number one, they’re probably not that engaged in what they’re doing, whether it’s their job or they’re eating really badly or they’re not sleeping very well, and there’s lot of sort of biological things you can do.

Cem: But I also think that people neglect the psychological side of energy management. I think that often that is the things that make you tired. It’s like when you get on a train and people are tired on the train. It makes your energy low, you want to fall asleep. I think certain people you speak to are negative about what you’re trying to do or kind of trying to talk you out of whatever you’re trying to pursue. That also kills your energy, certain people you surround yourself with. There’s times I know where me and Wayne have gone to the coffee shop and had a talk and we’ve kind of motivated each other and we’ve left with more energy, or we do a podcast and suddenly we’re, like, fired up on a topic, and these sort of things are really good to look at. Obviously, there are other general … get yourself some caffeine in, and start drinking more water, and look after your health. And these things are great for energy management, but I just think that a lot of time when you’re not getting shit done, it’s often because you’ve allowed your energy to be controlled by external things, or you’re not putting that time into yourself.

Wayne: Yeah. I just want to touch on the caffeine thing, actually. So it’s a slight segue, but I think interesting. I’m starting to hear whispers of this fad now, of going caffeine free. I’m hearing a lot of people cutting out caffeine.

Cem: The thing is, I think-

Wayne: You tried it, actually, didn’t you, recently?

Cem: I did try it, but I tried it for the wrong reason. Initially, I thought, “Okay, maybe I’m having too much coffee,” and obviously some people are relying on they wake up the morning, and you naturally got a whole cortisol spike in the morning, which gives you a bit of energy, but then people are then topping that with some actual caffeine, which means you’re getting this double spike which means you get that sort of mid-morning slump, and I think … I’ve read a lot into this whole bio-hacking thing, and yeah, caffeine’s good for you but it’s not good for you if you’re kind of constantly … it’s like having that tank of full of gas and it gets used at a certain level, but then you pour caffeine into the tank as well and suddenly that petrol goes down a hundred percent faster than it was before. So it’s going even quicker-

Wayne: Right.

Cem: … and so as you’re pouring that caffeine on, you’re using that tank up even faster, so by lunch time you’re knackered. And so I think a lot of the time, people who are cutting caffeine out is usually people who are chronic caffeine users.

Wayne: Yeah.

Cem: And so actually just … again, these things aren’t there to be used all the time.

Wayne: Right.

Cem: They’re meant to be sort of like a little pick-me-up. It’s like, “Okay, I now have the eleven o’clock morning slump.” That’s a good time to take your coffee.

Wayne: Right. And that’s kind of why I wanted to touch on the caffeine thing, because I think it … for most people, energy management is, “I’ll drink coffee, or have a Red Bull,” or whatever, and actually the whole point of that is, as you say, it’s meant to be a kind of, “Okay, I don’t have the energy now because I’ve used up all my energy, but I’ve actually got to work for the next two hours and I don’t have much of a choice in the matter,” so that’s a good time to have a coffee, because it’s kind of like okay, well you’re running on empty so you may as well top it up just to push you through. And then once you got through to the other end, you can collapse and that’s fine. But if you’re, as you say, I think the analogy of the fuel tank was a great one. If you’re going in and actually it’s the start of the day, you’re only … by having the caffeine, you are just burning the energy that you do have faster, so you should use it as a top-up rather than a kind of starter to the day.

Cem: Yeah, exactly. One thing I’ve heard about recently on a podcast is the idea of readiness and this restfulness. There’s two things … again, you’ve kind of got to see yourself as in these sort of little digital pet … like a Tamagotchi. It’s kind of like you do have a set amount of energy per day, and that tank is kind of … when you go for a run, that tank is kind of going down, but actually doing something physical slowly after once you stop, your energy starts going back up again at a faster rate, and so I kind of use this sort of way of looking at myself.

Cem: In the morning, it’s like okay, I’ve started doing a little bit of skipping. As soon as I wake up, do some skipping, 10 minutes. That, you think is tiring, but actually that gives me more energy. My blood’s flowing, I feel more awake. Then I’ll go out, do my thing. I might not fast … I might fast for the morning, so I won’t eat anything but then I’ll have a coffee. That perks me up, so that’s given me a bit of energy. Then I’ll have my lunch, and it’s kind of like, again, if I’ve done something physical, I’m come home, and I’ll think, “Okay, I’ll have a rest. I’ll go and meditate for 15 minutes, or I’ll have a nap for 20 minutes.” And I know not everybody has the option to do that, but then you’ve also got to be aware that, okay, I’ve had a really hard day at work and than I’m going to smash the gym after work and then I’m going to have a few beers or then I’ve had four coffees in the day so you’re constantly like … like I say, that tank you put it on extreme. It’s run out and you’re still trying to get it to get something out of it.

Cem: And I think this idea is that you’ve just go to really plan your day. Did you get the eight hours sleep? If you didn’t, then it’s not worth the next day smashing the gym. It’s kind of how are you managing your energy and are you aware of things are draining it and what things are kind of helping it recover.

Wayne: Yeah, and I think that’s kind of … it’s a systemic problem that we have at the minute. It’s a bit of an epidemic, where basically everybody’s quite literally trying to burn the candle at both ends. Everybody’s trying to work hard and play hard, and that is unsustainable. Like, it’s great, but it is unsustainable.

Wayne: I’ve just come off of a kind of two week semi-break, where I’ve not-

Cem: I was going to say, like a two week bender.

Wayne: No, sadly. No, a two week kind of semi-break, because I’m off from drama school now for six weeks, so I’ve gained two evenings of my week. And I’ve actually just came off of this and kind of went, “Do you know what? For two weeks, I’m not going to do anything outside of my day job that’s work related. I’m just going to relax.” And then this week has been my first week back on, and that Monday, I was saying Cem before we hit record, I was just firing on all cylinders. I was so … I was eating well, I got up early with no issue, I was working hard. I went to the gym as well. I just did so much in that one day, and it felt great. But I would not have been able to do that had I been doing … been working like that the week before. It’s just not sustainable.

Cem: Yeah, and I think, you think about that tank. At the halfway level is also your willpower, the potential for willpower. If it goes under that halfway level, your potential for willpower goes down. If you’re at the bottom of the tank, yeah, you’re going to crave that pizza, but if you’ve managed to have a meditate and you’re just over the top of the tank, you actually say, “Actually, I’ve got the willpower and energy to go to the gym or to actually go and pick something that’s healthy for me.” And so it is about thinking about, in this metaphor, of how are you sort of managing these fluctuations. And if you feel low, what are you putting in place to bring it back up a level?

Wayne: So, you, Cem, enjoy your bio-hacking. You like looking into all this stuff. If you were to point someone in the direction of the most likely thing that they could do to improve their energy overall, just as a general kind of looking at the way people are and the things that people are doing, what kind of thing would you say properly sort that out first?

Cem: I think, obviously, water is number one, like being hydrated. Then obviously the next one after that is sleep.

Cem: The food you put in your body. Certain foods take longer to digest, meats especially, which are going to take your energy. Again, not overdoing it on the caffeine. Exercise is one these things that people think drain them, but actually that perks you up and actually give you more energy. But it’s not about smashing yourself silly in the gym. It’s about saying, “Okay, I’m only 15 to half an hour, but that gets the blood pumping. That’s energetic.” And then just, yes, certain foods are going to be super-energetic for you, so I feel that’s a good start, really.

If you want any questions answered, or if you have any ideas for anythings you’d like us to address, send us an email, Wayne@powerfulnonsense.com or Cem@powerfulnonsense.com, or you can look us up on the Twitterz @PN_Podcast, and we will take it into consideration. And also, please do leave us a nice little review on the old iTunes. It really does help get the word out there for the show. Five stars or more, greatly appreciated. Or if you do know something that is kind of like, “You know, I am always tired. I am constantly exhausted,” perhaps ping this episode their way. That would be very, very, very helpful to us, and to them as well, most importantly.